SPEAKER_00 0:29

Good evening, everybody. This is a special edition of On and Off the Podcast, On and Off the Spectrum Podcast. I'm Dr. Estee Hest. And I'm Dr. Ann Pirsch. And today we went on a field trip. But to make this field trip even more valuable for all of us and for all of our listeners and viewers tonight, we want to introduce you to somebody who is absolutely fundamental to our team at On and Off the Spectrum. That's Samantha Feldman. Hi, nice to be here. And Samantha, you are the head of our social media, uh the genius, I should say, behind the social media visions that you see for On and Off the Spectrum podcast. Because she's here, you're able to see us. Right. And so as a consequence, today we did something I think pretty extraordinary. Yes. We have to we live in a very interesting city. We're in Los Angeles, California. And in Los Angeles, every once in a while there are some very interesting pop-up museum exhibitions. And the one that we went to today was called the uh Hospital of Emotions, which is the old St. Vincent's hospital in downtown Los Angeles that has been converted to an art installation with 70 artists taking individual rooms and making them I specialized on a variety of different emotional subjects having to do with physical and mental health.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

It is amazing. It's remarkable. And what is the most exciting among many things is that when we found out about this, we couldn't get tickets fast enough because it is 70 rooms in one wing. So you I don't scare anybody if they know the hospital, you're not dashing all around the hospital. But from the moment you check in, the woman behind the desk gives you a pink wristband. And you wear that throughout the entire excursion. You can stay as long or as short as you want, get tickets ahead of time, which is what we did. And what is um remarkable to, I think, to Dr. Esky and me is certainly the fact that what we do every day is we talk with people about their emotions, about what how they hold themselves together emotionally, how things can slip out emotionally. It's what is true for every human being on this planet is how do we deal with our emotions. So here we find that there is a pop-up exhibit that is so exciting because every room has been assigned to an artist, and every artist has had the ability to um to design it in whatever way they wanted. Now, behind the scenes, I'm pretty sure they were given um the kind of emotion that they wanted to uh wanted to do, or what they wanted to thank you, demonstrate. But from that point on, the artists were on their own, and they could plant things, they could grow things, they could paint the walls, the floors, the ceilings. And they did. And they did it, and lots of stuffed animals, and all of this along the lines of how do I feel about what are some of the things that you remember?

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Jealousy, compassion, anger, joy, variety of different emotions.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

And so they had different sections, right? So they had the first one was joy resilience resilience. Resilience.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

Different floors. Third floor, I'm looking here. Third, this is what they hand you when you come in. Yep, the map. This is your map. So we started at the top. At the top, which is sixth floor resilience department, joy department. The fifth floor is sadness department, joy department, gratitude department. The fourth floor is hope department, compassion department, anger department. And the third floor is love department, anger department, and then you exit through gift shop.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

And as you do in most hospitals, so what did you guys think about that categorization of how they did the emotions?

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Like, is that a typical category categorization of I I think, you know, for myself, um I began to feel very sad regardless of whether I was in the joyous section or the compassion or the resilience. Um it was first off, there are so many exhibits, it was a little bit overwhelming. Um we were there probably about two hours, and I would say if I could give a recommendation, I would say do it twice because you need time to process. And um I would love it if that you know if they gave you like a half price off for a second arrival or something, but that's you know, but for this company to decide. But I began to um I began to feel pretty sad because I think they devote a lot of time to joy and compassion, resilience. But the particular exhibits that showed sadness, jealousy, anger were few but so powerful that it really touched me on in in in multiple ways. We were we had we went out to this exhibit, and then we all went out to dinner together, and we were reflecting how each of these rooms made us think about a different personal experience having to do with someone who was hospitalized or had a devastating uh illness or uh had passed that was part of uh family or friendship experiences and what that provoked in me. So I would say that I kept saying to you, Ann, I'm I'm feeling really sad. Right, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

And I I didn't feel as as much sadness, although it certainly was there for me. What I felt was uh pain because it's a hospital, and you cannot get away from the fact that if you are have been hospitalized, you are there because something is wrong. Wrong enough that they can't fix whatever it is with you just being at home or in the doctor's office. And so it made me sad to know that no matter what the theme of the room was, somebody had been in that hospital bed. And that's the other thing we talked about is that there was a hospital bed in just about every room that we saw. And that was and it took center stage, yes, yes, and even if it was a happy theme or an unhappy theme or something in the middle, it was difficult and it made me sad.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Yeah. What did you think about the fact that the emotions were in this context of a hospital and healthcare? Like what were do you think it was only that context? Was it other contexts?

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Or I I personally was thrilled because I think we don't, especially in this age of technology where I think we're we're raising generation behind a wall. I think people are cut off from their any kind of emotional state. And so to be able to say, no, actually, this is a museum that focuses on emotions. There's a medical component, there might be a psychiatric component, but it's about emotions. I think it helps us get in touch with something that is so sorely lacking, it creates our humanity, our intimacy, our attachment to the world. It was, I think, critically important. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 8:58

And and I think another thing that I was thinking about is that if you are a hospitalized patient and you are lucky enough to have a really good nurse treating you, because in my book, the nurses are the people who really do the caretaking. Yes, you need the doctors, absolutely, but the nurses make the difference between whether your hospital stay is easier and more human or it is horrifying experience. And so seeing that each room had a different theme was was for me, it was sad, but it was also um remarkable because I like to think that more than half of the people in those rooms were able to get up and leave, whether it's on their own two feet or whether it's in a wheelchair out to the car. But you don't always know.

unknown 10:08

No.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

So, um, okay, I'm gonna ask you a couple more questions about your experience. Um, was there something today that surprised you the most about how you felt at one of these rooms? Was there something like very surprising or more expecting?

SPEAKER_00 10:27

I think I was j just from the very beginning, you walk into the admissions room and you see all these different photographs of you know of different feelings of uh, you know, in in the guise of you know, the the kind nurse, the anxious doctor. It was like a jealous nurse or something like that. Right, yeah, yeah, you know, and and the cool nurse. And and it was very, very so it's kind of whimsical. So you say, oh gosh, this is different and what this is gonna be. It almost almost had like a little bit of a Disney-esque quality, you know, as you as you're walking through. So it caught my attention right away. It's the way you'd hope things would happen. Right away. And then the very first exhibit, which is uh a fetus sort of suspended in animation just before you're anticipating the birth, that completely caught me off guard. And not only the actual image, which is powerful, but also the image, the message that the artist wanted to share, because this artist was saying that when somebody's about to give birth, it's a variety of emotions. There is anticipation to becoming a parent, whether the child is going to be healthy or not healthy, and and you know, so many of the cases that Anne and I see are kids who do have interuterine disturbances in their development, and so they are born often with some kind of developmental or sometimes physical, um, some kind of degree of disability. And so, yes, of course. So, this immediately caught my attention. I was surprised that that the feeling was like come in, here's the feeling right away. You are brought into into this experience. So I was captivated from a moment ago.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

I had the same, it's in it's not surprising, but it's surprising because um Essie and I have the same reaction to a lot of things. Yeah, but I felt the same thing that seeing that room and seeing a baby being born and seeing that um that and and not seeing, knowing that I had had that experience a few times, I immediately went backwards to what my experiences were like. And I absolutely know that when you had when you had a baby. When I had a baby, exactly, yeah, and what it was like to give birth and how different it is for everybody. And I was listening and overhearing what other people, there were a lot of people there, people with babies, people with kids and strollers, um, all types of people, and what a lot of there are a lot of people kind of hanging out in the hallway in front of that the door to that room, because even if you haven't had a child of your own, you were born, you've heard the stories that your mother or someone has told you about that experience. These are the stories that people tell all the time, especially women will talk to one another about it, and it really caught me off guard that I went so immediately, so far back, and here I am a therapist, and I know that that can happen all the time, and yet I was caught off guard.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Yeah, and so it triggers, it absolutely catches you from the moment. Because we're human beings, you know? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Thank you for answering. Um, was there an exhibit today that reflected something you see in your professional life very often, or something that you work on with your clients very often, or something that could like directly relate to their experiences?

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Goodness gracious. Well, I see kids who have all kinds of different uh developmental or regulatory challenges. Um I have a subgroup of kids who are cancer survivors. And um this is such a precious group of people who come to see me because they are warriors and survivors. But there is one, there was one exhibit where uh basically you see this beautiful, beautiful long, long pink hair, lots of it, that has been clipped away and is sort of draped over a series of walkers and uh it looks like um like a oh gosh, um not not wheelchairs, but uh crutches. Walkers and crutches throughout the room. And it was my association of the kiddos that I've worked with who've had to lose their hair because in anticipation for the effects of chemotherapy. So I was immediately I was really drawn to that one and and thought about all the the kiddos who I seen who uh with their parents have struggled to make the loss associated with the cure of cancer palatable enough to keep going towards success.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

It is a heartbreaking thing. We both work with children and we and adults also, but it is a special and heartbreaking thing when a parent brings uh your their child in and finds out that they have cancer or some other disease. And because chemotherapy, we have to remember, is used for things other than cancer.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Oh, remember also, Ann, there was that wonderful exhibit. It's a teddy bear, a very large teddy bear that had had rips in it. Yes. And needed to have a of a of a you know needle and thread to sew it back up together.

SPEAKER_03 16:31

And the needle was enormous, half the size floor to ceiling, right? And somebody made that. And then the thread was uh thick pieces of yarn, and it was used to sew it back together.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

And I giant bear. I remember turning to Anne and I said, that's us. We are the we sew the wounds back together, you know, the emotional wounds. That's right. And so I was touched by that. But that was I think that also touched both of us, yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Because you work with people that are suffering that are going through that pretty regularly.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

We there we broke we work with with with individuals, kiddos, who uh have been torn, you know, they're that there are there are ribs in their souls and in their development and in their psyche, and our job is as best as we can to sew it back up and and make them as whole as possible.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

Right. I remember a young woman, young teenager, um, who found out that she had a small cancerous spot in the front of her of her brain. Um it was something that could be gotten to and removed, thank God. But the shock of this for a 13-year-old girl, for the mother, the father, the grandparents, the whole entire family, the shock of this was shocking to me because I've known the family for a long time. And the only person in the room in my office who wasn't shocked was the girl herself. And when I said to her, everyone here is on edge and worried about you, and you're a smart cookie, you're picking this up. And she said, Yes, I've been picking it up for a couple of weeks now. And I said, Well, how do how do you feel about this? What are your reactions to this? And she said, Somebody has to have be the mature one. Somebody has to be the one who can stop worrying and just do what is needed. Well, I looked around at the mother and father, I just kind of scanned the room, I didn't say anything. What I was thinking was out of the mouth of babes. I didn't say anything, and everyone in her family that was in my office had tears. What wisdom? Vivid tears. What wisdom. And this young lady is brilliant. She's now out of college, they got it all, they did they did chemo, it was a real blessing they found it when they did. And this girl is out of college, and she, you know, c occasionally we talk to one another, and we'll we'll play that game. Do you remember when? And sometimes, usually it's about, do you remember when this happened when I was little? Because I've known her since she was a little girl. Sometimes it's about, do you remember when my family was driving me crazy because they couldn't hold on to their emotions? And I had to be the grown-up in the room. And what do I say? I say, I remember that, and you did have to do that. Do you remember what your mother said though after that session? She at one point she said, No, I don't remember what what did she say? She apologized to you for you having to be the grown-up in the room.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

So you can see, Sam, that these exhibits have provoked so much feeling, both I can only imagine, in persons who are going through different elements of of you know psychiatric or or or physical uh trauma and tragedy, but also for the caregivers, you know, who who are uh containing and and and and moving forward this this into a place of health. This is at a marvelous exhibit that does does you know from both ends. It really cut captures that feeling. This exhibition is at the at Saint St.

SPEAKER_03 21:15

Fantasy, yeah. And it is absolutely remarkable as we've been speaking about. And everyone who's listening, put your friends together and your checkbook and go and see this exhibit. Because you will not you will not only be flabbergasted by what has what's unfolding right in front of you, but you will think about yourself in a different way. You will think about who you are now and who you have been throughout your life, and that's a good thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Okay, so thank you. I'm gonna ask you some questions that are this or that. Okay. Okay. And then you can give a reason for your answer. Sure. Okay. So which emotion is harder to deal with? Anger or sadness?

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Oh gosh. I think basically my my if you don't mind. Yes or no? Oh, and include the question a little bit. Okay, yeah. So thank you. So which emotion is is more difficult to deal with, anger or sadness? Yeah. I think probably sadness. Because a lot of times people get angry as a way to like show a powerful side of themselves when really and truly they're sad.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

That's well, that's that's exactly right. It is sadness. I have seen a lot of very angry people in my office, and when it comes down to what is causing that anger, it is a lack of dealing with the problem and what and the problem can be many things, but sadness is often at the base of it. If you have have sadness and it has not been dealt with, um, it's very hard to go beyond that.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Yeah. Okay, so similarly, um is joy easier to feel or easier to express? Oh my god. That is really good. Like, how do you feel like the exhibit expressed joy?

SPEAKER_03 23:28

I think it's easier to feel it than you know, I'm thinking about in my clients, and I'm thinking about their how their expression of joy, and that um they can show you, people can show you how they feel. Um, behavior, I say this to my clients all the time. Behavior has meaning. I can see by their behavior if they're sad. But if it is something else, then they have to use their intellect, they have to be able to speak about it. That's often much harder.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Ken, I'm gonna answer the question a little differently. So you want to know what's easier to how do you deal with joy and do you express it, do you reflect it? Um what I immediately thought about is this wonderful Disney film, or maybe it's a Pixar, I don't remember. It's called Inside Out. It was the film of all of emotions.

SPEAKER_03 24:28

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

And at one point the ex feeling of joy is in conflict with the feeling of sadness. And the feeling of joy says, Okay, pervasively, we're all gonna just be happy, we're just gonna be joyful. And I and I think that was uh evident today in the museum. There's a lot of exhibits about joy. But there was also exhibits of sadness, and I remember in the film, sadness comes up to to joy, and she's not stop, stop pushing me out because you need to feel sad. Because if you don't feel sad, how can you possibly experience joy? Right, and so I think it's about experiencing joy, but allowing a full range of emotions, including sadness. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_03 25:13

Yeah, it's hard. It is hard, and we're not sitting here saying that it's easy to have a full range of emotions, but if you can have a little bit, if you can tap in just a little bit to an emotion, you will feel such relief in the long run, in the short run?

SPEAKER_00 25:32

And I think this this exhibit allows that to happen tenfold. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Was there any exhibit that specifically used materials in a way that was like more successful than others? Or was there anything like in the artistry of the exhibits that you felt like was particularly impactful because of the materials used or the theme, or like I remember that bird, the migration one? Yeah. Um like that was so powerful to me because I've been really into birds lately. Oh, okay. Like there's been some hummingbirds I've been seeing in Mosca or whatever. Yeah. And yeah, it was just making me think about like going different places in your life and seeing the human body and the bird head, like kind of made me feel like it was a different part of myself, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

That was there was one exhibit which had which was it was a hospital bed surrounded by boxes of delivery. I can imagine like a thousand uh Amazon containers, and they actually the hospital bed itself was made out of these containers. And if you looked on the the um, you know, there was little inscriptions on the boxes. Every piece was used, and it was like handle with care, heavy, don't move. And I thought that touched me because I said we are this, it it reflects the world we live in now. Nobody goes to stores anymore. We're all everything delivered, but it was but we are in this sort of um we're with we were in the delivery room, they called it, right? Right. We were in the delivery as as as life is being delivered to us, right? And we're getting our instructions. Be careful, getting breakage, no, and and right. It it yeah, it it was very powerful.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

It was it was shocking how powerful it was because it reminded us and reminded me that we are breakable, that we are um people who can be hurt, we can be shocked by another person's behavior. It doesn't come in a box, but it sure is a great representation for how we were feeling, especially by the end of this exhibit.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

It was it was can I can I mention one more that okay an artist lost his uncle, yeah, and he did not get a chance to say goodbye. And he was so sad and so angry. And there was the bed, which was kind of pristine, and there was a picture of the uncle, but then all around was just breakage, reflecting of his rage and his sadness and his anger, and his I did you left before I could say goodbye. We promised each other I would see you when you got out, and it didn't happen. And it was reflected by all these broken pieces, broken records, shards of of glass, uh furniture, furniture, anything you could do, broken promises, and and that also was really very, very powerful. Broken promises.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

Yeah, just such a lot of that's important to remember.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Okay, so I have one more question. Does that sound good? One more question sounds good, please. So if you could have anyone who's visiting Hospital of Emotions, if you could have hope that they have one feeling coming out of today, or one you know, hope for the future, or one thing to reflect on, what would you want that to be for them?

SPEAKER_00 29:18

I I I think it's to embrace all the feelings. All the feelings. There is a room where you get to write sticky notes and you can write anything you want and post it on like a large playhouse, if you imagine, or on the walls or the ceilings anywhere, right? And I wrote, I was so grateful to be amongst dear friends uh with me on this wonderful emotional journey because I think you want to have that level of intimacy in your life, and this exhibit just allows us to embrace that experience. Right, yeah. It's true.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

It it did. I think I would want people to come out of this exhibit um with a with a newer understanding or a deeper understanding of who they are as human beings, and that it is not only okay to feel your feelings, but it's mandatory. You have those feelings anyway. We all have those feelings anyway, so they can sit on your heart and be so heavy and make you feel so exhausted all the time. Or you can say to yourself, I have a good friend I can talk to, I have a family member, maybe a therapist, but there's always someone to talk to about what's going on with you in your life. It doesn't have to be six months worth of therapy. No, it can be a friend that you take out to lunch and say, look, some stuff's going on, and I'm feeling emotions that are new, and so I thought maybe I could talk to you.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I want to thank you, Sam, for these very thought-provoking questions for joining us today. And it's been a real treat. You know, we live in such a virtual able uh world that this was our first opportunity to get to meet someone who is so important to us in terms of the success of our podcast. So thank you on so many levels. No, totally. But uh I I just want to say I'm Dr. Estee Hess. And I'm Dr. Ann Kirsch. And this has been a special edition of On and Off the Spectrum Podcast. Again, we always say if you found today's uh episode meaningful to you, please let us know. If you feel that you or someone you know would be a wonderful guest for us to interview, please don't hesitate to reach out. We've gotten some of the most wonderful guests uh in the last uh several months because of your participation. If you have any questions or thoughts, please again don't hesitate to reach out. So, again, we wish all a good and safe evening and a wonderful night. Absolutely.