SPEAKER_02 0:29

Good evening. This is Dr. S. D. Hess. And I'm Dr. Ann Kirsch. And this is On and Off the Spectrum Podcast. And tonight we have an exceptionally special guest. Now, Josh, I know you as just as a friend as Josh, but I also know you as Pastor Josh. Would you like to be Hernandez Montoya? How do you want us to formally acknowledge your presence, sir?

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Yeah, so my name is Pastor Josh Hernandez Montoya. So yes. And I lead, um, you know, and I lead uh uh Gats Pueblo. It's a church in Boyle Heights.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Oh that's where half my family's from. And we are gonna tonight talk about this wonderful church uh in downtown Los Angeles, uh in the eastern part of our wonderful downtown, because you are you have an exceptional institution. You are known to be so totally inclusive, neurodivergent, the unhoused, gender fluid, you name it. And I'm just curious how the church was established. Did you enter to establish it? Did you enter at what point? What do you see as the purpose of your church? And we just would like to hear more of your story. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Yeah, we because it's so very, very important, and the inclusivity of what you do is so needed right now. Very much. So I am very excited to meet you.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yes, thank you for having me, and it's such a privilege. I and I just enjoy um every time we meet with Dr. Hess, you know, I keep learning more new things. Um, so yes, we are a small, tight-knit faith community of about 25 individuals, so it's a very small space. Uh, but what makes our church beautiful is that we don't have a separate special needs ministry per se. You know, just belonging is part of our DNA of our particular church. Now you said how it all came about, you know. Um, you know, in during the pandemic, a lot of churches, um, synagogues, as you know, had to close down. They're still trying to find the regulations for it. And um, and that time I actually worked in the fields in north of Bakersfield in a little town called Shafter. And during that separation, I would say, from church, because my church was in in Long Beach, and then I separated from the church during that closed down, and I decided to, hey, let me just go um and and meditate. Um, and in finding well, what I found was that we needed to be more inclusive and bring belonging into the space of worship. So um currently the vast majority of our congregation is non-neurotypical, navigating mental health challenges, um, physically differently abled. Um and I'm here today to remind leaders that you don't need, you know, big program funding um to you know to to be involved in this community. Um it's just I guess it's the way you live. And and and you know, mega churches try to like budget and and do a lot of of like how'd I put this ministering it into into different spots and location. But this is just a part of our DNA, like I said. And um a massive sensory building to create a space for where everyone truly belongs is it's the key. So you just need a a willing heart and and the flexibility to meet people exactly where they are, you know.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

So this Josh, this is a relatively new church then. This came about as a consequence of post-pandemic thinking. And I love the fact that it is all inclusive because I do think that there are a lot of families with special needs kids who don't fit into traditional houses of worship because the kids might make noise, they look different, uh, they may make odd gestures, and the family gets embarrassed, and so they're either asked to be take their child out, or they themselves feel uncomfortable and they they don't expose their children uh to a house of worship, and it's we're all the poorer for that lack of inclusion. And you just decided to embrace everybody, which I'm impressed. I was wondering, did you start? I mean, was that your original thinking, or did it just sort of happen in a more organic fashion? How did you start really being uh you know, kind of one come all kind of signage in the the front of your of your church?

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Yes, it it's sort of organic, but it's also required me to listen. Um we in our own congregations already have the people um in place, and and and I believe that the body of the church and its members um need to not just feel included, but feeling belonging into the space that was designed uh with them in mind. Um and how did that occur? I would say um families, families that are there currently already um already are present. The the thing is that um we sometimes, or at least my previous way of thinking, pre-COVID thinking, was uh, you know, I wasn't thinking about them. And that's the honest truth. The the fact are that once if it's not in your home or if it's not in your front front of you, it's it's it's out of mind, out of sight kind of situation. And it took um Tim uh and his boys that Dr. Hess knows, they're two boys with uh uh in the spectrum, and and I work with them very closely as Dr. Hess as well. But uh, but it took him to say, you know, what can we do to include? And they were coming, but I didn't know how to think outside the box because I was always religiously thinking a particular frameway of of of addressing worship, what worship looks like, what our agenda, what our daily routine looks like, without considering, right? Until I was able to be opened to hearing, listening, and implementing um what they're asking for. And Tim was saying, how can we include my sons? You know, I went to X amount of churches, X amount of spaces, of spiritual spaces, and and none of them had anything that will include my sons. And I said, Well, I don't know. I don't know. That was my first thing. I don't know, but I hear you. Let's see what we could do. And so I had to do a little bit of homework, and I had to um, you know, really start educating myself. And I'm still learning, so just to keep in mind, I'm no I'm no professional, I'm still learning in the process. But you know, he we do puppets. Um, you know, we we had to retrain the mindset of the congregants, like listening to listening to a cry or a yelp is part of the living space of belonging in the space. It is nothing to feel ashamed about. Um, it's nothing to feel, you know, if you need to walk around the space, need to go move and grab a sensory object. If that's you know, cams you are vibe is what we're trying to project. So normalizing movement is one of the first things I kind of had to introduce. Normalizing movement. And for that, I had to take them to the park. Uh we had a we had a park sort of uh church gathering, and you know, let's and the reason why I did that is because in the park you have noises all around you. You have dogs, you have you have people who are not necessarily um in the space of your home worship with these, you know. So I got them uh sensitized to my congregation. Hey, this is this is living, this is the normality out there. Well, can we bring that normality within inside of our of our space? You know, so we had to change a couple of things. Um, and that was a challenge at first, I would say, because reprogramming mindset is not easy. Um, some people did not like it, some people felt like this, well, you know, you're including them and you're excluding us kind of feeling.

SPEAKER_03 9:44

How did that come about?

SPEAKER_00 9:47

I don't know. Yes, uh, well, you know, change is not easy for us uh as humans, and there are some more stubborn than others, but we had to be okay. We had to be okay because at the end of the day, um these are a community. Well, at least we have to make that decision in our church. This is a community that we need to um um we need to bring in the space. They I hate to say it this way, but but you know, outside um there's different churches uh for them per se, and there's little churches for them this way. So we need to we need to we need to make a decision. What what is it that we're trying to cater to? And we made that decision. We made the decision to cater to inclusivity and belonging to all. And like I say to my congregants all the time, we are for everyone, but unfortunately, we're not for everyone, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

It makes a lot of sense, and you have I don't know if you have any idea, but how much in the forefront of thought you are you were and are by creating sensory sensitive space for worship. And we were just getting now onto this understanding that we are creating sensory-sensitive space for kids to go to the movies who are on the spectrum and have uh you know hyper-sensitive hearing. We are just uh we're going to be interviewing uh next week uh someone from uh from the state of the country Israel, where they're sensitive to uh not doing on their Independence Day firecrackers because of the sound and and the sensitivity. So the world is slowly, slowly getting on top of what you already knew intuitively. And so compliments to you. I wanted to talk a little bit more about your puppet shows because I will tell you that I know that not only do they have a religious basis, but you also deal with some very uh current political themes that come up. I know that your church was located not far from uh an ICE relocation center, um, where many of your congregants I think uh were fearful of the immigration raids, and that has come up as themes to your puppet show. So it's so the theme might appear juvenile, but I think it's far from that.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Oh, yeah, definitely. Um, you know, the in regards to Puppet, I really wish uh Tim is one of the congregants that really puts together the skits. He writes it. We play it together, um, and we try to stay away from the political aspects of it. However, there are things in the puppet show that kind of hint over um of the political climate of fear, right? Being feared, being going outside, uh, and we don't really specify the ice agents, but we probably you know mask it into um people that might be hateful or saying words that are harmful. Um so we try to keep it away from politicalness, but at the same time, we know, and the only way people could in our congregants to could connect with the message is by us meeting them at a at their level of where their fear is at or where their challenge is at or where they're you're you know, and so um you're more than welcome to watch it. We do have it on YouTube and on Facebook. Uh it's called Loving Matters. And and it it sure does. And our whole goal is for it for us to emphasize the loving of the situation. We have two characters, by the way. We have Doña Queja, who complains about everything, and then we have Mrs. Redigiosa who brings everything into a very religious sense of things. So we have very two dynamic individuals who are cousins and they try to navigate the world together. Um and so it's just part of bringing something new. Well, we used to say that this is for children, this is for children, but no, it's really the message is is for anyone, it's for anyone, and and we say children at heart, which is me.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

So anyone at all could could definitely you you said out loud what I absolutely was thinking. I you know, through years of working with children, how much I've learned from them. They see everything. I there was a little girl some years back during COVID who um was taking a bus to uh her school, and all of a sudden the bus was stopped, and everyone, the police came on and they escorted the children off to keep them safe, and they didn't tell the children why, but most of the parents were still there, and they told the parents, and the reason why was that um there were ICE and others who didn't like who these kids were, young kids, and the police did a good thing, and so when this little girl came in to see me, the first thing she said was the police helped us today, and that's has never been the opening statement for a for a five-year-old.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

They never I wish it never would be an opening.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

I know, I know, but it was such an amazing way for me to have a conversation with a child and her mother that I wouldn't normally have that conversation at that time. It was at the beginning of everything.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

I I think Anne, you bring up a really important point, and I think Josh, your the sensitivities and the life circumstances of your congregants tend to be somewhat harsher than um say the average Los Angelino, um maybe just even the the average uh American. And how do you help your congregants navigate, whether it's through a particularly tough economic period, uh a medical crisis, what how do they f how do they do they seek out help from you and and do you have organizations that are working with your church?

SPEAKER_00 16:42

You know, it's very hard. It is very hard because of the fear of of l being vulnerable, of exposing their life and their and their home, and their uh and and just some of them are uh quite frankly undocumented. Other people are just simply it's hard for them to speak out uh and ask for help. Um and so a lot of a lot of uh us the leaders there have to be there's some there's some silence that speaks louder in going on in the congregation. You just have to be noted and like looking looking at the clues, right? Um and it could be uh um you know someone that's probably wearing the same clothing for a while. Um they could be, and they probably, you know, you you just never know until they come frequently and they're like, okay, or maybe a hint of a smell of some kind, or um uh for our mental health community who just simply re are repetitive. So you just kind of kind of kind of see these clues, and you have to be very um discerning of of what they need because most of the times they're quiet. But once you break the barrier and once you maintain a trust, and that's the key, it's one of the things that um that is harming our community is that there's a lot lack of of trusting others. Um and so if there's that lack of trust, then then they won't open up. Once you gain that trust, you have to be very respectful of how to maintain it and be honest about it. You know, going into their own vulnerable state of life and then trying to figure out what is it that they may need. Um, and so it's it's it's challenging. It's like peeling layers. Uh and I know you I know uh there's another peeling of layer in mind. There's also peeling of layers of what they need in their home. Well, how can we navigate it? How can we make it um I have a lovely uh person in our home in our in our congregation that um her home is is you know, she she's disabled, and her home is completely messy, completely um hoarded out. She has a son who's also in the spectrum, and it's living in this particular environment. And how how do I um uh you know, I've come to her and and we helped her clean out, but it's it's it's this is just relief, right? Leave cleaning it out is just relief, feeding is just relief. How can we uh find a uh uh wraparound service to help this person um come out from this this this situation because it's not safe. However, if I call quickly to to know get her out of there, um police come and or whatever the environment may look, and then sometimes they might have to take that, but if you walk slowly with them to be like, hey, you know, uh there are these services, there are these programs that exist that truly exist in our community, that we just have to keep knocking those doors, especially here in Los Angeles. Um it's it might be a fight, but it is a worth a fight for for a lot of them, right? To finding housing, to finding shelter, to finding a safe place, to just finding a uh a way to clean their clothes, and then obviously feeding. So there is organizations out there, thank God, but at the same time, um they don't trust. And as soon as they trust you, they're able to come to you, and then they'd be able to intake and receive all the planning that you may provide to them. But if you come harshly, they're like they put their barriers up, they will probably leave.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

And and I was the new person on the team. So it's just what you were saying. Um a psychological emergency team is a pet team. And um the woman who led this was someone I knew very well, and I asked if I could join, and she said, You'll come to the door, she laid it all out, come to the door, don't speak, don't don't move until I give you a signal, a hand signal, I introduce you, and being a therapist for most of my life, I could read people pretty well, but she was in charge. And it was exactly what you were saying. I'm entering their space, and I'm not entering in judgment, I am entering in love. Um, she brought, she would talk about religion with one this particular woman because that was her way in. So I could do that, but I found that being still and know her this woman knowing that I was a friend of the primary person who brought me to her door. After about 15 minutes, she said to me, So what kind of a doctor are you? Because she was used to psychiatrists trying to haul her away. I had to explain who I was not. Just like I have to explain to little kids that I am a talking doctor, I'm not a doctor that gives shots.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

So what we're talking about is creating trust.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

And Josh, to your credit, you created a church not only of inclusivity, but a church of trust, where people of all different abilities, challenges, can find a place to worship, uh, a place where there is a kindred spirit, a place where they can get a variety of different supports. You follow their lead, and as you were suggesting, and you really time your entrance to what they can tolerate, which I think is a marvelous, marvelous message for our our uh listeners and our viewership today. I want to thank you so much for the message uh that you've shared with us today because I think you've given parents hope who have special needs children that there are uh there are places, whether it's a house of worship, whether it's a therapeutic environment, whether it's uh someone who has a good listening ear to say, I hear you, uh, you don't scare me with your noises, you we will be sensitive to where you are at and offer the support that you can tolerate and bear at this moment in time.

SPEAKER_03 24:00

Are you someone who for our listeners, are you someone who uh a listener could reach out to? And you could give them support for wherever they may be in Los Angeles, so in the country. That's a good good point.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Would you repeat the name of your church as well?

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Yes, um, my name uh I'm Pastor Joshua Hernandez, and our church is located in Boyle Heights. It's called God's Pueblo. God's Pueblo. And um it's in bilingual English and Spanish church. That's terrific. And uh we're located at 2002 East First Street, Los Angeles, California, 9003.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

So what we're gonna do, Josh, is for readers and viewers who uh find an identification and have maybe questions for you, we'll pass that on to you directly. In the meantime, if you as viewers saw something this evening that you found particularly uh that you could identify with, if you yourself would like to think that you too would like to be on our show to share your wisdom with our larger community, please don't hesitate to reach out to either myself, Dr.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

Estee Hess, and and and of course, and I'm Dr. Kirsch, and I go by Dr. Ann. Okay. Um I've been anointed that throughout the years, and I and I love that. And so um we want to thank you for being part of our community and for giving your joyousness the smile on your face so much about who you are and what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

And in addition, if tonight you really did enjoy our special episode tonight with Pastor Josh, then please subscribe, uh, share with your friends, uh follow us on Facebook, uh Spotify, Music, uh Instagram, Instagram, and all your wonderful social media outlets. And again, Josh, thank you for this evening of wisdom and support.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

And we wish all of our listeners peace uh on tonight's journey. Yes. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Thank you so, so much. Please have a good evening.