SPEAKER_00 0:30

Hello everyone, and actually we are saying good morning from Los Angeles and good evening from Wales because we have a very special guest. I'm Dr. Estee Hess. And I'm Dr. Ann Kirsch. And we are on and off the spectrum podcast. Today we have a very special guest with us, as I mentioned, across really the continents and the world, and so happy that you're that uh you're joining us, David Richmond has come to us, and uh David has a very interesting story in terms of being diagnosed with ADHD later in life. How you navigate that uh when you find yourself in a neurotypical family. And then he also had to navigate a very uh tough scene for any of us, but particularly if you're trying to navigate with ADHD, and that was the uh passing of his beloved mother uh from metastasized breast cancer, and that was about two years back.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

That's a nightmare. I I'm so sorry, my heart goes out.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Thank you, thank you. So so we're gonna just uh get started with our podcast, and just to ask you first of uh David, thank you for joining us, and I know that you're navigating life on your end in the evening, so thank you again for being part of that. Uh but talk about getting diagnosed later in life. How old were you, first off, when you were diagnosed formally?

SPEAKER_03 2:00

38. So it was the it was last March. So it was March 20 2025. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Just recently, March 2025. And this is a very interesting topic for me because this is what I I did my doctoral dissertation on ADHD. And so um I've always worked with uh children, teenagers, adults, every age, and it is most people don't realize that this is not just something that happens with children. There are a surprising number of adults who get diagnosed as adults. That doesn't mean it automatically all of a sudden popped up.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Right? But there was there were symptoms, and you were dealing with struggling, pushing yourself through school, through other things in your life, because it's there earlier, it's just diagnosed later. So a question that I have too, along with a million other questions that we will look at, is was it a relief to get the diagnosis? Or how did you feel about getting the diagnosis?

SPEAKER_03 3:16

It was a huge relief, a huge relief for me. It was a really overwhelming. I remember the call very well. Sat at the top of the stairs, went talked, talked it through with a with the uh clinician, and then cried, cried solidly for about 34 years.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

It's a very common response because finally knowing that there's a name for what you've been doing all on your own in many ways.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

I'm I'm curious though, what uh propelled you at the age of 37 to say, I want to do the formal testing and get a diagnosis.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

I was getting really fed up with the yin and yang of am I suffering with anxiety and depression in general, and that's then creating the autistic or ADHD traits, or is it the other way? Is it the traits that are causing is it the actual ADHD and the autism? Because I do believe I've got autism as well as I'm waiting for that referral as well.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

So it and and by the way, that's 75% of persons who have um ADHD also are on the spectrum. So that's not an unusual combination. So I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

Normally there's normally a cum ability in this and where there's another one somewhere. So I expected I'd have I'd have another one at some point. Yeah, but um yeah, so the original so that's why it was that kind of just swinging back and forth all the time. It's like it's which which one's creating what? And I just thought it's to ask the question, it's easier to just do the assessment and then say you're 100% just to put that kind of unease and that question at the back of my head to rest. Um, because I've always had uh an element of mental health, but I I wasn't sure to what degree was from a neurodivergence, and now I know it's it was all from a neurodivergence from a young age, so yeah, so um combined is what I was diagnosed with. So they said it was more uh I would have been more um hyperactive as a child and then got into in attentive inattentive it later in life.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

So for our our viewing audience, let's make that distinction. There are three categories of attention deficit. There is the hyperactive where you have a motor going on inside of you and you have to go, go, go um with actions and or thoughts. There is the inattentive, it's very difficult to organize to ADD, just sustain your attention, and now they call it just ADHD globally. Or like yourself, David, you have the combination of ADHD, which excuse me, the hyperactivity, which evidently showed itself earlier when you were younger, and then inattentive as you as you age.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Here I know that in in the in our field, um, we tend to make the distinction between ADD and ADHD, or um the combined version of it. Because people need, I I think we both have this experience. I certainly have. When if I just say ADHD, someone will say to me, invariably, they'll say, Yes, but I don't fall off my chair, you know, my kid doesn't, you know, fool around in the classroom, it's more the inattentive part.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

So definitely was that with me. Yeah, definitely me.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

How young were you when you started to notice, or when you look back in school? When did you start to notice?

SPEAKER_03 6:54

I'd have said I noticed much more when I was in university, I would have said was for me. I would have said university kind of more is when I started to suffer with the anxiety and the depression and kind of worrying about things constantly and not going being able to walk into a room without some without somebody coming and meeting me outside. I had to have that kind of somebody come and see me first because I didn't like walking into a room, and um, so that that that unease came at university. But when you look back in terms of I don't remember much of my childhood anyway, I don't remember before nine years old. I always say nine, but when I think about it, it probably was more uh it's actually between nine and thirteen. Um I don't remember much at that point. Um, so that and that was always in itself difficult with the with the assessment because they were like, tell me about your childhood.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

And I was like, Yeah, don't really so formally our di our Bible for diagnosing, the the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual says that all these things are supposed to happen before the age of seven. But if you've got a lot of I'm gonna I'm gonna make uh uh an inference, but it's not uh an absolute by any means. If you've had some traumatic experiences, sometimes it just blanks out those years, and that's the body's way of trying to cope. So I can appreciate the fact that your memory starts at the age of nine. Absolutely, it's very common. So so alright, so now you're nine. Did your did your parents, your mom and dad, did they did they make any kind of um awareness or I don't know, you know, I I I mentioned I was recently in Scotland and it's a wonderful, wonderful uh uh uh country, but the there are limited services, and so I'm wondering if it's a similar kind of scenario in Wales where um you know you're not gonna necessarily travel to London to get assessed. So what do you do with this information? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 8:53

Yeah, yeah. So I'm in England, um, to be f to be honest, so not Wales, so I'm in uh just in in in that one. So just uh Okay. Um but England's the same. We we're a lot of people get are getting going through referral, which is called the the right to choose pathway, so it's it's private, private operated by with NHS kind of referral pathways. Um the NHS pathway in its own in its own, so the National Health Service is quite lengthy. Um so there's somebody I know locally who's been on that waiting list for coming up to six years and the NHS one and still hasn't had any pathway, whereas the right to choose pathway can move within eight 12 to 18 months, depending on which provider you get. Um so and you can choose which provider you want. So you can say, I know this waiting list is only six months, or so you can you can choose who you like.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Even that, truthfully, in terms of getting care, is outrageous. You know, if you're suffering and to have to wait like you know, twelve a year to a year and a half is considered a good wait list. I mean, you know, so it just shares with you how you navigate and what and and would likely have an increase of anxiety and depression because right now you're not being treated.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Yeah, so my developmental parts that you were going through that no one was addressing and you were dealing with.

SPEAKER_03 10:17

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. And and still now, um still I was diagnosed, I was had the assessment in January 25. I didn't get the result until March 25.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 10:28

And then I've only just entered trituration, so for ADHD medication.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Announced, and that was three weeks ago when I had the clinician call, and I still don't have the drugs. So so I'm still chasing the drugs, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

So you're still chasing it. So there's the process of getting diagnosed and then waiting till you get clinical care, and then for a psychiatrist to say, yes, indeed, here are some medications that could help, and then still waiting for that.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

And it's a and it's approximately a year and almost a year plus more to get it. All right.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

So then once you get the medication and you start it, I mean, we know here and everywhere, you should be followed up pretty soon afterwards to see how the medication is working in your body. Right. What happens there, how long between the next meeting priority.

SPEAKER_03 11:28

Should have been fortnightly, fortnightly. I think it was it was either fortnightly or monthly um review. Okay, so yeah, the seventh of 7th of March is when I had the first sorry, 7th of April. So we're now coming up to we're we're well over that time, but I've because I've not had the medication, they've not they've not had anything to follow up on, have they?

SPEAKER_00 11:48

So so everything is still in waiting. So we're going back. So your parents were not necessarily aware of the problem. They considered you what kind of a kiddo?

SPEAKER_03 12:03

Um, I would have said just a generic a kind of insular kind of lad. I always didn't really wasn't really outgoing as a kid, um, as younger kid anyway, as an adult, definitely went a bit crazy. But um, yeah, as a as a younger child, I was always much more like the quiet one, didn't really get into big social groups, um, would always keep myself to myself. I was quite happy playing with my in my own little space. Um but yeah, in in later like when it got into my teens, then it was a bit more like, well, now I'm a bit more I went and went to UNE, went to college on my own, started to be started to have a drink and started to get a bit more social art out there and mix with people, and that's when I started to get a bit more, have a few have a few more have a few more kind of well what difficult kind of scenarios for myself, probably get too drunk, lose your keys, lose your phone, things that people do.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Um but obviously interestingly, I'm wondering if if you might have taken some you know, consumed alcohol as a way to reduce the anxiety or become more social and or like maybe relax and life was a little bit easier on some level, but that that's a beast that kind of gets.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

Yeah, it's that I call it the uh anxiety, it's like we hung over our hand anxiety, it's that the hung hungover anxiety is what's the worst bit of it afterwards.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Hung over anti-anxiety.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

Yeah, on the on that moment you feel great, but then the day after, it you still return, you still return to that element, but then if not worse.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

So you can develop alcohol uh you know uh alcohol consumption issues just from trying to find a way to remedy yourself.

SPEAKER_03 13:54

And so that's but luckily I didn't go down that route. Luckily, I just I just um had uh social social drinking, I didn't go to excess, but I'm appreciative of that.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

So I'm speeding up the timeline a little bit because you meet and uh a lovely partner and you marry?

SPEAKER_03 14:13

Yes, yeah, yeah. So married coming up to four or five years now.

unknown 14:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Okay, and and was your now, your partner did were were they aware that you um you know might have had this is prior to diagnosis, but that there were certain elements of your childhood, adolescence, young adulthood that you would really challenge in terms of organization and focus and so forth.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

Yeah, yeah, and then you were about the trauma as well, that kind of those kind of concerns that I'd had. So my I don't mind uh saying it, but but it's about like um my dad. I didn't see my dad since I was a younger, a younger age. Uh dad looking back, dad probably was the one with ADHD. He was the public of the hyperactive. What I remember of him was always very reckless, um into drug use, um, a bouncer, club at the nightclub kind of scenes. And one very definite when I remember him is buying me a motorbike when I was so small I couldn't even get on the thing. It was it was so big. It was this motorbike, but I remembered him buying me and him think and then when I look at it now, I think well, that was obviously impulsive for him. He obviously thought, oh, I just want to buy this, I want to get it for him, but there was no way on earth I could even I couldn't even stand on the stirrup to get onto the motorbike.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

So impulse to several things, impulsive and maybe his own wish for speed to you know for his adrenaline rush or the need for his own dopamine push that he projected it onto you. But we also know that ADHD and two and and some variations of autism are genetic. And so you're saying if I look at it, it was my dad. So part of it was also being a child of uh what you describe when you use your words as a reckless parent. And that's I would imagine it would have been kind of frightening, you know. As I said, on the one hand, here is a here's a motorbike for you. And I boy, I can't even get up on the pedals, Dad. And and you know, what's that? What's the meaning of not being able to please dad, right? In this context of of you know of his own.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

That's exactly what I was thinking of. That that here you're given this amazing present, but it's so inappropriate. And it's from your father, right? And you want to please your father, and it's exciting to have, but there's no way you can use it. So it's like all of these things are colliding for you emotionally and in your head. How do I handle this? How did you handle it? What did how did you couldn't get up on it, you said?

SPEAKER_03 16:56

No, I really don't remember the the the conversation. I just remember it just being a ridiculous conversation between my parents at the time saying, like, oh what have you bought that for? It's it's gonna be you're gonna have to send it, you're gonna have to send it back because you can't have it. So they were they were separated at the time, so it was one of those when I was visiting him at the weekend. So I thought I don't know if it was a bit of a one-upmanship, if it was one of those where he was thinking, oh, if I just buy this, then it'll show off. But it was irrelevant.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

So I mean having separated parents who are now squabbling about a gift for you, and how did you that make you feel again because I don't really remember that much about it.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

It was one of those uh I can't, yeah, I can't really comment, but I just remember I always remember like a resentment towards him for thinking that that was something like plausible. You could have bought me something else or or could have been could have invested in my life in a lot easier in a different way that was actually more beneficial, whereas actually buying me that was just a I feel like it was just a bit of a showmanship.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Right. David, first off, we appreciate so much you opening up about your life. Um it it makes me wonder, you know, the challenges of an I'm guessing your mom was neurotypical of that the fact that she was saying you know that's an inappropriate process uh presence she was recognizing and the fact that your folks are separate. It is there's a higher incidence of separation and divorce amongst individuals with both ADHD and uh certainly if there's a comorbid um uh diagnosis of autism. Uh what what's the quality of your marriage now? Your wife is neurotypical, you're married now going on five years. You always you had a big smile when you mentioned that some things are are good, and you have children.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

Yeah, two children. Yeah, we have a three-year-old and a and a one-year-old. Oh congratulations. Yeah, so yeah, no, life's great. I said um I'll do anything to be the the a dad that what not the same as him, basically.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

That's why so that's health care, not not to be like him.

SPEAKER_03 19:02

Okay, that's that that's what my my main aim is, is always to not to not to get to that point, hence why I need to learn more about my ADHD for it not to trigger where my trigger points are, what can then set me off, what can make me frustrated. But I'm really open with the kids, incredibly open with them. Obviously.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Are you working with a therapist, a psychiatrist, someone now who is helping guiding you, or are you?

SPEAKER_03 19:26

So yeah, an ADHD, an ADHD coach. We have a lot side. Yeah, so an ADHD coach. I don't know if you know about access to work as well on from the uh NHS side. We have a uh a government grant that can be granted to us um to retain us in one into employment that we can apply, we can apply for to the government, which is called access to work, and that fund then applies either for software adaptations or anything that's beyond reasonable adjustments within work. Um so that was paid for via access to work.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

So we're located in California, we have something called the regional center. There are 18 regional centers in the state, and you can, if you are shown to be, you know, either having developmental delays or a cognitive impairment, you can become a regional center client, and they can provide similar the state, then pays for having someone to uh be with you at work if you need it, or give you some kind of it's for the department of rehabilitation to help adults um enter the workplace and and be successful.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

Yeah, very similar, very similar. Yeah, very similar.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

So, but um how does how does your wife and are you I don't know if your children have yet to be diagnosed, if it's even necessary, you know how how is that? Because you introduce yourself as a neurodiverse individual in a neurotypical family. And how do you how are you managing?

SPEAKER_03 20:52

I call it the um the neuro outlander, kind of like the one on the outside.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

Um so yeah, no, we we work really well. It's if I'm if I get to a point where I'm too triggered or too um sensory overload or kind of need some support, my wife will be really good to know and see the trigger or to intervene and I'll say, right, I think it's time for you to step away or do what you need to do. Um so instances where there's been one where my daughter was constantly saying she didn't want me anymore, she didn't need me there, and a lot of people would would would normally just go, Come on, it's all right. Well, for me, the RSD kicked in the rejection sensitivity. It was like I was like instantly like, Well, why don't you want me? What's wrong? And I was I actually cried in front of her. And my daughter, I mean my wife came in, she was like, Right, what's going on? And I just said, Yeah, just said these really hurtful things, and she was like, Right, remember, you're the adult, she's the child. I know it, I know, I know it's upset you, but let's take a break, you go out for a little bit, regroup, and then come back.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

She sounds, she sounds wonderful. Hold on to.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

her with yeah she's great honestly she is great but i'm curious a lot i'm curious because when you're when you first meet someone and you start dating them and you how soon did you I know you touched on this but how soon did you start to reveal your history via DHD I don't know if you had the autism spectrum disorder diagnosis at that point yeah no I still don't have it I still don't have it I'm going through the referral supposition yeah okay but um yeah no we went to my whole question is how early did you start to tell her about this and how did she react from the beginning?

SPEAKER_03 22:47

So I'd say we were both very open about mental health issues together. We were both very open about that kind of discussion and how we and how we both suffered throughout our lives with it. I would say the real conversations came about if it was more ADHD autism the neurodiverse uh that divergence came more around just prior to COVID 19 being and coming out so 2022 I'd I work in an industry where I support people back into work um with mental health or disabilities and I went to a co I went to a kind of a conference about um autism and I came out of that autism um workshop very much thinking that is me all over and I should really be I should be exploring this and then it kind of then COVID hit and referrals pathways kind of struggled but that's when I started to pay for a personal weekly um counselling session every Friday and it I said I'm not I'm not going to work I'm not paying for travel I'm not paying half of the things I can do to go out anywhere because I can't do that anymore. I've got this pot of money that I can now spend on on investing on me and that's what I did through COVID.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

I spent the money I thought I'm gonna have my multiple diagnosis to deal with I'm gonna have COVID to deal with and they have the isolation to deal with and also I'm working with people who have got mental health and physical disabilities to get them back into work in a very difficult time for the world it's it's gonna be a lot for me to deal with um and I and I decided that that was my pathway through you found the silver lining in COVID which I think people are still struggling with and you said okay so I have now time and money so to speak that I wouldn't spend otherwise I'm gonna take care of me which is fantastic. Yeah yeah did that and and put the money away for the for the wedding and your partner was it sounds like as interested in these issues as you were mental health issues and she um didn't sound doesn't sound like at least that she was afraid of this or wary of this she was all in she she really was in love with you you are a lucky man and she is very very lucky woman I think I think that and then when you find the match you hold on tight yeah oh no we we did we we clicked straight away when we met it was really really quick I have to say it was one of those where we what you you you just knew straight away we were like I want to take those uh we have not such um a large amount of time left but I I I wouldn't be a remiss if we didn't talk about your beloved mom. Yeah you had mentioned that she in the midst of all this recognition and struggles uh and she was diagnosed now with uh metastasizing breast cancer yeah yeah she um it was ironic because she actually worked for the breast scan at breast scan uh unit that's why she she'd always worked there um she was well she was well loved by them all um and it was one of those where she'd just been coughing endlessly for months and they just said we just we just go get it sorted um and we I remember she had an operation to drain drain alum um because it was it was that it was that it was that bad um and the first kind of sign I had was we went to go see her on the ward and I said why are you in a cancer ward and she was like I don't know I said it just must be the it must be a generic treatment.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

Oh protecting you yeah uh and she didn't have a clue. Well I she said she didn't know how she was there. She said she didn't but my mum was very much one of those people who would probably would never tell you she did so yeah um so yeah it was that's when it kind of then first and then I think then she started to think well actually and she did say to told me actually took her notes off the end of the bed and read them because obviously she worked in that field she could reach she could understand the the medical the medical notes at the end of the bed um so that's when she said she started to obviously get me a bit more worried about it. So yeah that but she'd obviously been diagnosed before COVID and then obviously COVID hit um so I was constantly worried if she was going to be if she was going to get it if it was going to catch her prematurely COVID would take her out but um mum actually caught COVID three times during the time when she had kind of and she still and she still came around so she was um a fighter no end how did your ADHD impact you trying to help her helping yourself navigate this you have a beloved parent you're struggling yourself the world is kind of coming apart in terms of COVID um thank god you've got a wonderful partner but all this is going on I think all I had all I could do during that time was just see look for look to support her and try and make sure she's sustained and she had enough we had food coming in for her she had food deliveries she didn't have to go out we could do all the things as much as we could it was trying to keep her going kept me going I think through COVID um having regular conversations with her making sure my sister lived with her and my sister used to then go to work as well so making sure my sister was keeping precautions and keeping distance from her making sure she didn't create any hazards on it was a very difficult kind of balance to try and keep of looking at but she we we we did as well as we could and then obviously after COVID it was it was um just constantly going with her to appointments seeing how far she was going through treatment being there um through those kind of scenarios and then obviously through the decline um spending as much time possibly with her I changed my working patterns as well so I could um have flexible working so that I could look after the children a bit for our childcare but also so they could spend some some time with her as well.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

So it was only she only met my daughter she didn't meet obviously my um my son um so she she only knew um our daughter who's three um so yeah it was I I wanted just to spend as much time possible um to to spend those memories with her before before we we'd sadly lose her so I think I was more realistic in the in the outcome than what the everybody else was I think that everybody else was just living it by day day by day whereas I'd already kind of researched anticipatory grief um looking at those kind of how I'd how I'd cope at work kind of putting mechanisms in for support at work if I needed more time off how would that would look um so I'd I'd done a lot more thinking about it I think than anybody else had um on the day of my mum passing my my daughter my sister was still at work she'd gone to work that day um we had to drive and go get her and say that mum's mum's not got long you need to come home um it was it's everybody else was living a a normal life and I'd already kind of said I need to put a brake in yeah yeah so it sounds like David you have had an extraordinary life experience I mean you have had obviously trauma associated with history in terms of whether it's autism but certainly not ADHD and it's made you sensitive to yourself to be aware of how what you might need to take care of yourself and be blessed to have a wonderful partner who was equally open and aware about mental health issues and you know can step in and it's a it's a you know a good marriage is a wonderful day sometimes the partner needs to step in sometimes the partner needs to reach out and you sound like you have that but more importantly it allowed you to prepare for the trauma of your mom's passing to be thinking what do I need to do to take care of her and whether it's delivering food so she doesn't have to worry about these kind of things to the point of what do I need to do for myself if I need extra days off from work if I need to and and and fully sort of being able to cognitively take it in and not run from you know obviously something that is uh you know tragic at at on any level in any degree so that's all really up to you a lot of people have always told me that with ADHD you will be a fantastic crux for the diet for the most worst scenario you will be great in those situations but if it's something very simple simple like getting for going for a bus or getting getting something going having it have an appointment time that can absolutely ruin your day but in a crisis I I can always pick up you you can do it so this is this is this is that's your that's your superpower as definitely the definitely a crisis point is where I'm best at but I am I'm worse at anything else like common sense is something I don't have I I think you you have given our readership today our listening audience a wonderful wonderful example of survival of having to recognize you know there was no gun to your head as an adult to say you know what's what's wrong for you you you it created so much relief to understand where is my depression and anxiety coming from do I need to address one versus the other or is there the the uh the embers what's what's what's the real cause and you were blessed finally it's still ongoing in terms of of the the search to to get some help with that and and recognize um I think you're unusual. What what would you tell our audience let's say our parting words you know if you have uh if you're an adult and you have imagined that there's something going on in your life uh and for whatever reason your parents um you know you didn't get the usual course of treatment like you know were you going to a pediatric clinician to kind of figure out what's going on. What what do you want to tell people uh other other adults who might be struggling with the the question you know am I okay what's really going on something feels off but I don't know what it is and I right don't know how to name it.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

Right. I think it goes back to what I said earlier that that neuro outlander kind of feeling is it's not a deficit it's a unique perspective that offers a bridge like it offers a difference between the like mental health struggles and how to be an effective kind of parent um that and I think that's why I've really kind of embraced it it has don't get me wrong it's not been easy it's been very very like rocky at points and have to really like kind of negotiate some difficult conversations but that's what I've I have tried to really embrace it and try to say right this is the difference um I often get from my wife it's not an excuse and I'm like it's not no it's not an excuse but it's an explanation as to why I'm doing this yeah but but it's brilliant what you just said is brilliant because you can fight it and get nowhere or you can embrace it and it does become a superpower in in kind of an absurdist way sometimes but it does it is who you are and everyone has something no one's brain is the same as anyone else's and if you can embrace it this is the message I'm hearing if you can embrace it you can move forward with strength with power with love and if you are lucky enough to have family around you who love you no matter what yeah and a wife who will call you out and say no no you know we're not gonna blame this or call this something else you need to speak nicer to me or don't yell as much or whatever it is um and then you listen. Yeah and then your team.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

Yeah it's wonderful yeah I think that I did a recent post about that on on the on the um neurodads that I the page that I run I did it on there because I said that's the same it's that sometimes you've you forget about the joint journey of being a couple yeah yes and become so absorbed into your own journey as a new as a somebody who's newly diagnosed that you forget about everybody else. And I think that's and that's at this point now two years in I thought actually it's not my mum's passed two years ago in February and my diagnosis is now getting on a on an even keel I know where I am I'm starting to get there this is now the time to be a bit more open and this is what hence why you've hence why you've got me.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

You know what David I think actually you've just given me an idea because I'm wondering if we could have you back but with your wife. Yes that would be because you know that it would be interesting to hear from your partner's perspective how she is navigating in terms of you know embracing uh a husband who is uh neurodiverse and it's in but the point is embracing embracing the fact that your brain does work differently but it's no less brilliant and and certainly successful in its own right um we will continue this discussion because I'm gonna send you an email to try to work that out if you think that she would be interested. Do you think that that's something she might be interested in doing I'll ask her yeah because she's um she's uh looking at to explore her own possible um neurodiversity I have to tell you I really like that because not only are there lots of adults who are listening to this program but I also know there are a lot of partners of individuals who are neurodiverse who aren't saying what's going on or or they f have figured it out but don't necessarily have the specific tools that evidently you and your wife share together and to make it a successful couple. And so um I will be we'll some maybe we're sending you an email shortly to try to work that that piece through but in the meantime we want to thank you so much for joining us today. I know that you are working on getting your kiddos in bed so I'm gonna let you go ahead and do your thing but uh I just want to say that this is I'm Dr. Estee Hess.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

And I'm Dr. Ann Kirsh and we so much appreciate you being part of On and Off the Spectrum podcast.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

We if you felt today was particularly interesting to you we encourage you to subscribe to join our uh follow us in on the variety of different social media platforms that that exist and if you think like we just now had an idea that uh you could join our podcast as an interesting guest please reach out to to uh Dr. Anne and myself and uh to the rest of the world we say both good morning and good night depending on where you're located and thank you again David for having me appreciate it so much have a good rest of your evening please pleasure you too have a high bye good night